Curse

JJ_Gee · Nov 18, 2006, 04:39 PM // 16:39

In my experience of playing the game, I personally find that the missions, or more precisely the way in which the missions work are probably the main flaw of the game.

Don't get me wrong alot of missions are fairly enjoyable, but there are some missions that are just insanely hard to beat, or too long, and you cannot progress through the game merely because of a badly made mission.

Perhaps what is the key downfall to the missions is the lack of resurection shrines, i.e. when you all die you fail, no matter how far through you have got. So you have just spent what could be over 30mins on a mission only to fail at the very last hurdle, then you must start all over again with nothing to show for your progress.

What I suggest to solve this problem would be to introduce the resurection shrines, just at the beginning, so at least when you die you still have all of your hard work left standing.

This will not make the missions any easier as some may say as you will still of course have the death penalty on you, therefore it is still preferable not to die.

I do not know what all of you think about this but feedback and other sugestions would be great.

Thanks

lyra_song · Nov 18, 2006, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Um....

i dont see that as a downfall....

Missions are keys to the storyline.

Certain things trigger and happen at certain times.

Lets say a mission requires you to protect someone and kill somethings at certain times.

If you die and res, you have to run to where you last were, and by then, your protectee would be dead.

Missions put you in a position to play a part of the story. Dying repeatedly is not part of the story.

JJ_Gee · Nov 18, 2006, 04:47 PM // 16:47

I'm not saying that dying repeatadly is part of the story - but all i'm saying is that so much time is wasted by having to redo some missions so many times that the game becomes boring - it make sense that even if they didnt have resurection shrines, that when you fail after getting like 95% through you should get something out of it shouldnt you???

electrofish · Nov 18, 2006, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Every chapter have masters/bonus rewards for people who wanted harder challenges...

If you can't beat the mission just to get on with the storyline there's something very wrong with either your playstyle, your build or your team. (In the case you're continuously failing with pugs consider going with hench or heroes, that's what I do)

lyra_song · Nov 18, 2006, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ_Gee

I'm not saying that dying repeatadly is part of the story - but all i'm saying is that so much time is wasted by having to redo some missions so many times that the game becomes boring - it make sense that even if they didnt have resurection shrines, that when you fail after getting like 95% through you should get something out of it shouldnt you???

Almost good enough is exactly that.

Almost good enough.

what? you want an alternate storyline for when you fail?

gameshoes3003 · Nov 18, 2006, 05:16 PM // 17:16

I'm sorry, I cannot agree with putting in Res shrines, it takes away the challenge of the game.

Arkantos · Nov 18, 2006, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Putting rez shrines in missions make them explorable areas with objectives, which takes away whatever little challenge the missions already are.

MithranArkanere · Nov 18, 2006, 05:22 PM // 17:22

There are also quests that require you not to die.

Missions are separate areas with an added 'party survive' objective.
It's just like the tiny turtles mission, you want them to resurrect too?

It's part of the game.

Avarre · Nov 18, 2006, 05:22 PM // 17:22

You're arguing against the fact you can fail missions. The reason there are missions is they must be completed. Practically every good game has had things you must pass or fail.

If you can't lose in a game, you can't really win either. If you can't win, it's not really a game. It's just a playable storybook.

Of course, this is all mainly rhetoric.

Helcaraxe · Nov 18, 2006, 05:23 PM // 17:23

stop complaining 'cause you can't play the game as good as the other average noobs.

runeseeker1 · Nov 18, 2006, 05:30 PM // 17:30

You actually want to put a rez shrine in the middle of a mish...
im sorry, but what crack are you taking? i'd love some of that stuff.

the whole reason of the game is to be challenging, and youre ruining that when you add a rez shrine.
and what, you want the turtles or master togo to rez with you?
i dont want to flame, but thats what you brought onto yourself when you said you wanted rez shrines.

BahamutKaiser · Nov 18, 2006, 06:02 PM // 18:02

I am against removing the "challenge" from GW. The fact that your characters die and actually get a second chance is all the video game handicap you need truely, I couldn't imagine playing GW hardcore where you character dies and that is it. Missions require talent, teamwork, and a little bit of actually playing the freaking game, honestly, it owns over every single game which stresses time spent leveling up day after day, month after month, a challenge in the form of a mission is about as ideal as it gets.

My only grievances is probably the death of allie members when you are in a mission, it seems that they are right there but you cannot revive them, nor do your other allies revive them, they just die, and often take the mission with them. Wile in some missions that is certainly a feature point, having a bunch of instant restarts in your party cost too much for an additional healer or some sort. Still, it is a part of the challenge, and though I would appreciate if more classes had support abilities to address this difficulty, removing it would make some missions too easy.

And at this point with heros at our aid, the difficulty is far less, and mission difficulty really shouldn't be reduced, evolve yes, but digress, no.

Rera · Nov 18, 2006, 06:13 PM // 18:13

If you get nothing out of beating 95% of the mission, that's your fault. Why? Because you're supposed to get playing experience out of it - so that you *don't* fail the mission the next time.

If you fail a mission, go in, play it exactly the same way, and fail again, then you really haven't gotten anything out of it - but that isn't the fault of game design. That's the fault of a player too stupid to learn anything.

MithranArkanere · Nov 18, 2006, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Yup. In the hardest hech-possible missions, you need no more of 3 tries to get the tactic to win. If there is not a timer, slow but sure. If there is one, focus on the objectives.

In GW, you can't level up more than 20, your power is not your level. Is your knowledge. You know the enemy, you can make builds to counter their builds. You can change, they can't. That is the power of the chosen ones. Use it.

A good example is the Fire Djinn. A party may be wiped out when they first meet a Fire Djinn Searin Flames boss. But once they know them, you change your build... e.g.: you have Extinction or any other full party condition remover... done! And they are easy.

Arri · Nov 18, 2006, 07:01 PM // 19:01

I don't believe missions are the main flaw of the game...I think the level 10 enemies with 50000000000+ in all attributes are the main flaw, I'm talking about the enemies on your way to missions

Series · Nov 18, 2006, 08:00 PM // 20:00

If you beat 95% of a mission, you DO get something to show for it.

Drops.

Yes, some missions CAN be incredibly annoying- especially if henching (although with the introduction of heroes in Nightfall, this problem is basically gone except in the older chapters if you didn't travel to Elona), but the majority are fine.

Kuldebar Valiturus · Nov 18, 2006, 08:13 PM // 20:13

I just finished the Consulate Docks Mission, it rocked. I agree some Missions could have some tweaks to fix some issues, but not for difficulty. I think ANet is setting the right balance. And I was the type of person that despised Campaign based games, well, here I am eating this stuff up.

I think mainly it's because there is still enough non-linear content available it doesn't make it seem too restricting. But, it is a balance.

The tension you feel during a Mission is good, it's meant to put some pressure on you. The stress of knowing that even though you are 90% complete toward reaching your objective, you can still fail and lose all the progress.

And, failing isn't useless, it informs you that you need to change how you are approaching the problem.

I fail Missions all the time, but rarely ever more than once. It's my first time through the game and I am always with Heroes and Henchies so I have to learn the ins-and-outs myself.

And when I do a mission and the Bonus/Masters; it feels good. Not because it was easy, because there was a chance to actually fail.

soulkeepertdd · Nov 18, 2006, 08:25 PM // 20:25

I am the first to moan on about the things guild wars needs.
But i have to say missions in nightfall are great 2 days 15 pugs 15 attempts to kill shiro was great.
for my money i loved it.I would hate to have flown through every mission first time like i did in factions.
completing a good mission you had to fight for and work hard for is great.
I hope the days of breezing through missions is over.

The game has to last 6 months if you can complete it in 12 hours that is a lot of bored time.

nice one Anet keep the missions harder.

Dalimoor_Kalkire · Nov 18, 2006, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

In GW, you can't level up more than 20, your power is not your level. Is your knowledge. You know the enemy, you can make builds to counter their builds. You can change, they can't. That is the power of the chosen ones. Use it.

Well said, Mithran, well said. Implimenting shrines is the wrong direction. You need to adjust your builds, your teamwork, and your tactics to survive. I can't tell you how many times I've slipped up and failed, but that's the way it should be. Pass or fail. Live or die. As Mithran said, we have the ability to change our builds. And [Forgot name], someone above me gave the example of the Djinn with Searing Flames. I remember when I went to capture that and the boss destoryed my team. I went back, got Broadhead Arrow on my Hero, dazed him, and kept a melee fighter on him to keep him interrupted. That is what Guild Wars is about. Your greatest tool is the ability to adjust.

When you fail, don't ask the game to bend to your beck and call; bend your playing style to master the game. You can change, they can't.

LifeInfusion · Nov 19, 2006, 01:42 AM // 01:42

The missions are the core of the game

/notsigned to any changes to missions